Hey so, Midori’s throws have different frame advantage depending on the character.
Not sure if this is intentional?
I compiled a little chart here, displaying the frame advantage or disadvantage for throwing every character in the game:
Grave: f.T +10 b.T +8 df.T +0 db.T +2 Setsuki: f.T +2 b.T +0 df.T -8 db.T -7 Rook: f.T +6 b.T +4 df.T -4 db.T -2 DeGrey: f.T +7 b.T +4 df.T -4 db.T -3 Geiger: f.T +11 b.T +9 df.T +1 db.T +3 Jaina: f.T +11 b.T +9 df.T +1 db.T +3 Valerie: f.T +11 b.T +9 df.T +1 db.T +3 Midori: f.T +7 b.T +5 df.T -3 db.T -1 Dragon: f.T +11 b.T +9 df'.T +1 db.T +3
(For some reason I can’t make this table look good, no matter what I do. I really, really, really hate this forum software.)
Soooo yeah. Setsuki actually recovers faster than the dragon, by a large margin, and can actually use Ninjaport to counterhit anything Midori tries to do after he forward throws her. He can block it, but that’s it. If he jumps neutral, he’s hit by the first hit and can possibly react to the second. If he jumps forwards or backwards, he gets hit by the kick.
Other than that, it’s also inconsistent who you can sweep in human form, which I wish was consistent.
For some reason that I still can’t figure out, Grave, who is -9 after being thrown, still gets hit by sweep when trying to jump. Admittedly my testing may be a little faulty, since I’m testing by using the first frame the characters jump, so there might be something throwing it off.
Anyway, this is kinda weird so that’s why I’m posting about it. Maybe it’s intentional. I don’t know.
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This is a very well made thread and it explains… so much!
@Legion might be interested.
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Setsuki’s fast af recovery can help Midori in the corner though.Because of how much quicker she’s vulnerable corner throw loops are easy af against her, you just throw her into whichever corner and mash throw and you’re there. Granted, the odds are you’re only going to need two of those throws, but its still helpful.
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Are purple-throw and dragon-form throws equally weird, timing wise?
Dragon form throws are listed there, it’s just hard to tell because it’s impossible to format a table with this awful forum software.
Purple throw causes a knockdown, so as far as I know it’s consistent.
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You didn’t provide data against Dragon Midori though.
Ah, okay, gotcha. Best way to do tables is probably use Excel, use Snipping Tool, and then copy paste the snip into your post.
That’s a good idea. I just made up the table in notepad using tab spaces, but they don’t appear in posts here, and neither do multiple spaces. It looks good in the reply box, but not in the post.
I tried looking up how tables work on discourse, but that didn’t work either.
Overall, I still hate this forum software.
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The one TYM uses is great and seems to be quite popular too.
You should wrap the table into “Preformatted text (Ctrl+Shift+C)” or “[code]STUFF HERE[/code]” as it forces the forum to use a monospace font which also supports tabs/multiple spaces.
The different frame advantage depends on the different hurtbox/pushbox sizes of each character. A while ago I reported human Midori’s no-timing back throw loop only working on half of the cast and Sirlin briefly explained why Midori back throw loop - #4 by pengwndude
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Fingers crossed I didn’t mess up the data!
f.Tb.Tdf.Tdb.T
Grave +9 +7 +0 +2
Setsuki+1 -1 -8 -7
Rook +5 +3 -4 -2
DeGrey +6 +3 -4 -3
Geiger +10+8 +1 +3
Jaina +10+8 +1 +3
Valerie+10+8 +1 +3
Midori +6 +4 -3 -1
Dragon +10+8 +1 +3
Source HTML:
<kbd> </kbd><kbd>f.T</kbd><kbd>b.T</kbd><kbd>df.T</kbd><kbd>db.T</kbd>
<kbd>Grave </kbd><kbd>+9 </kbd><kbd>+7 </kbd><kbd>+0 </kbd><kbd>+2 </kbd>
<kbd>Setsuki</kbd><kbd>+1 </kbd><kbd>-1 </kbd><kbd>-8 </kbd><kbd>-7 </kbd>
<kbd>Rook </kbd><kbd>+5 </kbd><kbd>+3 </kbd><kbd>-4 </kbd><kbd>-2 </kbd>
<kbd>DeGrey </kbd><kbd>+6 </kbd><kbd>+3 </kbd><kbd>-4 </kbd><kbd>-3 </kbd>
<kbd>Geiger </kbd><kbd>+10</kbd><kbd>+8 </kbd><kbd>+1 </kbd><kbd>+3 </kbd>
<kbd>Jaina </kbd><kbd>+10</kbd><kbd>+8 </kbd><kbd>+1 </kbd><kbd>+3 </kbd>
<kbd>Valerie</kbd><kbd>+10</kbd><kbd>+8 </kbd><kbd>+1 </kbd><kbd>+3 </kbd>
<kbd>Midori </kbd><kbd>+6 </kbd><kbd>+4 </kbd><kbd>-3 </kbd><kbd>-1 </kbd>
<kbd>Dragon </kbd><kbd>+10</kbd><kbd>+8 </kbd><kbd>+1 </kbd><kbd>+3 </kbd>
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Hey, that’s pretty good.
Although, as (briefly searches) you in fact pointed out in the other thread, Midori has one extra pre jump frame, and I was timing frame advantage off the jump.
And I didn’t yet update the thread.
So all of the human form throws there should be one frame towards Midori advantage.
Hmm, I’m not convinced that’s the same thing. The push back is unrelated to the frame advantage directly.
No matter where they get thrown to, the amount of time between Midori and his opponent recovering is wildly different for some characters.
some characters just touch the floor earlier thus recover faster
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Ok so I updated the data which was out by one frame, but I still think this needs looking at.
