Quince move set brainstorming


#1

Here’s the page for Quince’s move set

As of now, it’s just illusions and we haven’t talked a lot about supers and normals, but we’re still figuring out the implementation of his shtick.

EDITED:
All B iterations will make faded illusions of the other 2 animations.
bB: feint (cancelable into normal or super)
nB: jump in attack (plus on block)
fB: cross up slide kick (minus on block, knocks down)
C:

Air B
Air C

Super: leontes and I both wrote things below that are to confusing to clearly copy here in a sentence.
Air super
As we add stuff I can put it here, especially because it’s so sparse


#2

Here’s a video of Murakomo for those who don’t know:


#3

I could see doing something like Murakumo or maybe Chris from KOF '97, except that the implementation is a bit harder when there’s no high-low mixup to implement (maybe throw/jump kick?). There’s only left/right and attack/throw mixups available within the game space, so it’s a bit more of a challenge in that regard.

It would be cool if his super were basically just a roman cancel that turned him into an illusion and caused the real him to reappear more or less immediately on the other side of the opponent.


#4

Or if it sometimes didn’t make him reappear on the other side?


#5

I’m hoping that since there ins’t a high low mix up, that it will be based on cross ups.
I think and hope that maybe one after image goes for a low slide, while the other after image comes from behind in the air in a divekick maybe.
I don’t really know what the start up would look like for that. I think that with a great cross up, he could be really strong and fun, but not necessarily broken if you’re sharp


#6

I imagine kind of like a Scorpion qcb+P from old MK games (he probably still has this, I have no clue lmao).

So the Murakomo-style B for Quince would show an illusion jumping in from the front, illusion jumping in from the back, and then another standing still or doing a safe-on-block slide thing. You pick which one you really are with a directional. There’s no high/low, so to differentiate the slide from the jump-in there’d have to be some reason you’d want to do one over the other. Maybe the jump-ins are - on block (but not so unsafe as to never do it) but you can combo after (maybe for 1 more), the slide kick is 0 or + and causes KD. Quince can be slow enough otherwise to where he gives up his turn easily on a blocked B (unless it’s the slide).

So now you have incentive to do all three of them, and the threat of the crossup version can help land the other two easily. The slide is the “best” one, but has least payoff and enables the other two to function as a mixup.

His super seems like it should be “all three illusions are real” but you pick one of them to be, and that one comes out first or something? Idk, I don’t like the idea of “guess right, take 1. Guess wrong, take 3!” Seems bad.

I feel his normals should be big slow + on block things that can cancel into the B to give you a block string and pass priority.

Not sure other moves yet.


#7

I like the idea of that. I think slides are typically minus on block from other characters, so what if back was feint, easily cancels into normals, neutral was a forward jump attack, plus on block and cancels into 1 more hit, and forward was slide from behind, negative on block, but crosses up and knocks down.
How’s that sound?


#8

Dunno how the super would be implemented, or how the player could actually do that. Normals being slow but plus sounds reasonable too


#9

That works, too. The Murakomo options are:

A) Don’t go in (bB)
B) Slide in low (B)
C) Jump in high (fB)

The parenthetical buttons are how Quince’s B would work. So since our game needs to have crossups instead of high/low, we need the fB to be a crossup thing for sure, instead of a high. So maybe you are right that it should just be “fake, left, right” as the three options.

So he’d need some kind of super that works with that. How confusing and awesome would V-ism custom combo thing be for Quince? If you’re not familiar, here’s a video:

What happens is you leave a “clone” that does exactly what you do, but a set amount of time after you do it. In SFA you could decide how long that window was (short, medium, or long), but maybe Quince can’t, and he has a set timer for it. It could be such that everything he does in this mode causes very little hitstun and can’t combo (maybe yes on counterhit) so that each individual action would be a mixup of some kind. That’s probably a little too crazy, but it fits him flavor-wise for sure.

Another kind of super would be one that autonomously fires off a random swarm of “B” attacks (never the feint), but the actual Quince player can still move around and perform actions?

With that sort of move I’d kind of want him to have a short range teleport dash like Slayer/Bison so that he could easily shoot this off and then spam C over and over to really confuse the opponent into blocking the wrong way. bC = teleport backward, C = glimmer out and go nowhere ultimately, fC = teleport forward.

I imagine that Truth Geyser is an air B move that drops to the ground like Rook jC, but then fires up a wave of gold like a Captain Corridor or Power Geyser sort of thing, hehe. Still no ideas on air C, unless it’s the same teleport move but he can use it in the air, too.

One other thing to remember about Quince’s Yomi incarnation is that he has a megaduff Pilebunker like DeGrey. But I’m not certain he needs to have that really. However, that could be the “honest” frontal version of the B move, animation-wise?


#10

What did you say his C was?

I’m not 100% following your description of super, but I think I kind of get it.

My take on that could be a super attack with really slow start up, but invincible. So you do it on counter reaction (opposed to a true counter) and when it lands you get a combo of his slide into an illusions overhead jump attack, which does 2 damage, but that gives you enough time to follow up with something (air attacks, ground attacks, etc) so you can get a 3rd hit off, but also set up for the next situation (KD, in the corner, getting out of the corner)
I’m thinking you can’t really combo into it, except maybe on counter hit, and it will not lose to projectiles like regular counters


#11

Still waiting on @Leontes take on C,
But I was thinking what if C (or maybe air C) was a parry like Midori, but instead of hitting back, you dodge, or you shatter as if you were an illusion and you appear behind them. Maybe also your next after images out faster and with less faded looking illusions


#12

For C I said it would be a short dashy teleport that isn’t an attack at all. But that’s probably not good enough to be a real C move. So what if pressing S again during the super gave you a teleport?

So here’s how all that pieces together:

bB = Quince stands still. A clone does a frontal move. A clone does a crossup move.
B = Quince does the frontal move. A clone stands still, a clone does the crossup move.
fB = Quince does the crossup move. A clone stands still, a clone does the frontal move.

S = The above B moves occur randomly, so it looks like there’s a huge barrage of clones and active projectiles on the screen that need to be blocked the right way. During this animation, you can still press S. It will do the following:

bS = short teleport backwards
S = teleport and go nowhere
fS = short teleport forwards

Also, you could still press B, and get additional clones to come out to make it harder to block the right thing, as there would be two things to block, one of which is actually you and the other which is a projectile.

This concept kind of falls apart if “bB” is “do nothing” though. Which is why I initially wanted all three options to be attacks on their own, with bB being the safest.


#13

That sounds pretty nutty. I guess it could be like a state of being like midori Dragon form, but act like Karin’s V skill where your moves change a bit and you can do extra stuff


#14

bB: ground slam like DeGrey?
Or maybe that’d be too good.


#15

Okay @Leontes what if
What if his C functioned similarly to DeGrey’s back dash.
However! Instead of bobbing back, he has a slow “dash” forward, like maybe a slow run.
Similar to DeGrey B, you followup the dash with A, B, or C.
A: fake out dodge: your animation fades away and another appears above, allowing for air follow up
B: punch
C: throw

This would be like his positive spin ability, which you can adapt on reaction. It’s very slow though so it’s not safe if you don’t have momentum.

Theoretically if it was like this then THIS would be B and the illusions would be C


#16

That sounds good, gives him some parallel with DeGrey (which he had in the card game) and could bring back his JQK moves and Dodge flavor.

Kind of like DeGrey with illusions instead of Ghost, still has a Pilebunker, but has Throw in his mixup instead of not. I am reluctant to give two characters a similar mechanic, but since it’s DeGrey/Quince it might be fine to have similar Counter-point Step.

Give Quince the counterhit mechanic? It would go further to enforce a similar but different theming. Would be fun to see those who don’t know the lore saying “Oh so these guys are brothers or something, right?”

Ha…!

EDIT: Oh nm, you’re saying he can have a forward run. That’s way different, I see.

I wonder if your move as proposed gets beat by lots of stuff? DeGrey needs the C so you can’t just super every time he hits B lol.


#17

Yeah I’m still not 100% on my C idea. I didn’t want to just rip the back dash straight from DeGrey, but I did want someway of pulling options for Quince. I am also unsure if his pilebunker would do 2.
But the idea was that he’d have a move that’d be similar, but not the same to DeGrey back dash so that he can have something that emulates his positive spin, as well as playing foil to DeGrey. His positive spin is based on dodge, attack, and throw, so I was basing it around that.

What if instead, he stood still and spun around, and in the spin animation you can go into a quick back dash, a far reaching punch, and a throw


#18

Ooh! Okay, so then we just give him SFV Vega Matador Turn (V-Skill)!

It would be like an S-Groove dodge (if you’re familiar) with multiple options out of it, including “nothing”.

B = Glimmer out of existence for a second. Then, one of four things:

Nothing = Stand still. Use this to fake out the opponent, dodge projectiles, bait supers, etc.
A = Some kind of movement option, think O. S-Kill teleporting Divekick (Quince reappears above where he left, and does a downward dive at a 45 angle)
B = RIGHTEOUS ZEAL megapunch for 2
C = Righteous Tumbler command grab for 1

Thinking about how that works now, I’d almost want the first B to have a directional attached (bB to teleport backwards, B to stay in the same spot, fB to teleport forwards, then press a button [or not] after to get the real move) so that he can do mixy things, like fB A for crossup jumpkick. In a world where his C is the Murakomo illusion tricks, you could hit fC to start to cross them up, then fB and A after to divekick them from both directions, with 2 illusions left on the screen.

That seems… awesome lol

EDIT: Example of S-Kill shenanigans


#19

we got it.
It’s done.

Now we just need to figure out his air B and C…


#20

His S (Truth Mirror) should be an Aegis Reflector