Tier list Discussion


#21

everyone we hate we put at the top and our main is bottom 3 xDDD


#22

also THANK YOU for adding input. I didn’t know that Val struggled with Grave


#23

Interestingly, Sirlin said his tier list is
A+ Midori
A Everyone else
A- Setsuki

He also thinks that Geiger Rook is in Rook’s favor which I cannot possibly imagine how.


#24

Another discussion
Human midori is too good
Dragon midori is also possibly too good

The biggest issue for Human is that his throwloop mixups are too good.

Should he have:
1 shorter throw ranges?
2 damage throws?
3 nerfs outside his throw loops like slower relative walk speeds, lower priority on air attacks?


#25

Now that the August build’s free weekend is coming to a close, what do we think are the tiers and matchups looking like?
How does the throw button affect this? How does walk speed affect gameplay?

It seems that Geiger has had the biggest change, since his jC is fundamentally different than it was before. Jaina players are still saying it’s a bad match up, which I find interesting because she has charged arrows, but I’m not familiar with the matchup.
Midori is also changed since his throw loops aren’t really relevant anymore.
I also think that sweeps as a whole feel more effective since you can choose to sweep with a greater range of effectiveness, at least it feels noticeable for midori who had a huge grab range. This also affects Midori and Rook for fA at close range, since they’re moves that hit twice.

As for matchups and tiers, objectively looking at changes, there are only negative changes for Rook. However the walkspeed may have a greater impact on his gameplay. An increase in super timer doesn’t vastly affect his balance either I’d argue, since you often sit on it a lot waiting for optimal punishes. EDIT: @sharpobject brought up the point that the throw button is a huge buff to Rook, which I am very much inclined to agree. It allows a LOT more flexibility with Rook’s mixup game. For me the struggle of getting in is probably still equal to where it was, but I’m a lot less upset about that idea if Rook’s mixup game on wakeup is much much safer. In essence the idea of getting in being hard enough but then one wrong guess means death was really frustrating, but now you have more flexibility in those options for mixing up, allowing for greater capitalization.
This build as a whole I find that Yomi Counters are a lot less frequent because there are more options now. Overall helping Rooks chances
Midori also seems objectively worse since his throw loops and dragon B crossup oki loops are gone, as well as having arguably significant less dragon time. These changes don’t feel too bad for the most part though since he was agreed by most of us that he was just too good.
DeGrey on the other hand seems to have objectively improved, especially with the bug removed, but even with small things like longer hitboxes for neutral A and throws

I’m curious to know about the Geiger match ups because I didn’t get around to playing as much as I used to and I’m not a patron anymore. I just didn’t really see the zoners as often as I used to. Is he still the bane of everyone’s existence?
And of course, did the throw button and walk speed greatly affect matchups too?


#26

Sirlin’s tierlist went from Midori A+ everyone else A Sets A-
to simply being Everyone A Sets A-


#27

From what I’ve seen so far Geiger is a wall and his super is great.

A+: Geiger, Rook
A: Jaina, Valerie, Setsuki, Midori, Grave
A-: DeGrey

I’d say the game is pretty balanced so far.


#28

I think Midori got hit hard in the nerfs, and definitely dropped out of top 3 where he was sitting.
Geiger remains strong.


#29

S: Geiger
A+: Setsuki
A: everyone else


#30

It’s been over a month now.
I’ll be honest I haven’t been active as I used to and not as much as I said I would be now that it’s early access.

I don’t feel confident about making tiers right now but I am certain Setsuki is much better than she was before. Where do characters stand now? Is Geiger still on top? Is midori’s human form still too good? Do projectiles still reign supreme?


#31

I don’t see how Geiger changed much from his top placement in the tier list, and Midori probably follows closely.

I wouldn’t know about Setsuki personally though.


#32

Midori’s human form definitely got weaker with the game wide walkspeed updates, minus him.


#33

Yeah, I would still think Geiger is number 1, but I would probably say Setsuki is not far behind, probably a number 3 behind Jaina or a number 4 behind Grave imo. After that I’d say Midori in 5th, DeGrey in 6th and Rook at the bottom. I know this leaves out Valerie, but I really don’t play her and I play against Valeries so rarely online that I can’t confidently comment on her. She seems to be pretty middle of the road on paper though. She has some good frame data and big hitboxes, but she has a lot of moves that are not safe on block and once you realize you can grab her out of BB before she does her yellow attack, you leave her with some pretty limited neutral options.


#34

Yeah, that grab thing is stupid. To be honest grabs in general are way too fast.


#35

My super uninformed inaccurate rusty play tier list
A++
Geiger

A+
Sets Midori

A
Jaina Grave

A-
DeGrey Val

A–
Rook?? Totally willing to accept that this is mad biased and I’m super wrong


#36

That’s a good list, but I’d boost everyone below A to A.


#37

Nah m8, there’s no way Rook and DeGrey are on the level of Rook and Jaina.


#38

I agree, there is no way in hell that Rook is on the same level as Rook. What was I thinking?!


#39

Bleh. Not sure how the shit I fucked that up. But yeah, I really cant see why Grave and Jaina wouldn’t be higher than Rook and DeGrey.


#40

Well for starters DeGrey is super good. He’s weird, expecially at first, but he movement is crazy good, same with his neutral and pressure.

Rook, on the other hand, has a very hard time against Geiger, but he can handle every other MU. Most are either a little bad or a little good, but that goes both ways. I play both Valerie and DeGrey and Rook is not a MU I enjoy as either, Jaina has an easier time though.