Argagarg Garg (+some Lum) speculation from Discord

[NiGHTcapD]

The actual suggestions are spread throughout, but I feel the rest of the conversation is also decently relevant.

---

LordJimmyBones - Yesterday at 7:21 PM
When's Arg and Lum?

NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 7:22 PM
On that topic. Can I describe what I think Arg is going to play like?

LordJimmyBones - Yesterday at 7:27 PM
do it

NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 7:28 PM
bA: Dhalsim-like hitbox with staff, 0 degrees from straight.
fA: Dhalsim-like hitbox with staff, 30-45 degrees from straight. Anti-air, of course.

LordJimmyBones - Yesterday at 7:30 PM
so he has a staff
i see

NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 7:31 PM
Doesn't he though? I was pretty sure he did.
nA: I dunno.

CWheezy - Yesterday at 7:31 PM
he has a staff

phil/sage - Yesterday at 7:32 PM
jA: baiken jS
B/jB: baiken tatami/air tatami
C: baiken guardcancel

LordJimmyBones - Yesterday at 7:33 PM
get out
anyway
curious to see that
i wanna try new stuff

NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 7:34 PM
B: Bubble, acts as a fireball but moves slowly. Can only have one onscreen at a time; either you can't use another until it pops or disappears or it pops when you use another. Or you press B again and it pops to make a damaging explosion. Dunno which behavior would be best.

bug_deal - Yesterday at 7:34 PM
[This was a picture of Arg striking with his staff.]

NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 7:35 PM
C: Slide. Hits once, chips twice. (It has two hits and at least the first knocks down.)
Thank you bug_deal.
jA: 0 degrees below straight.
djA: 20 degrees below straight. Or maybe more.
jB: Uh...you come up with an idea. Slips past an attack and takes chip for it maybe?
jC: I'd say drill, but I can't see how Arg could do so within lore.

bug_deal - Yesterday at 7:40 PM
air bubble? arg seems like he'd have an air projectile
i would be down with arg just spinning down around his staff like dhalsim

NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 7:40 PM
Good point.

bug_deal - Yesterday at 7:42 PM
like just gripping his staff with all his arms so he's parallel with it and doing a drill

NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 7:42 PM
Hmmmm...maybe for one of his supers he becomes slippery for a time and takes chip with no limited hitstun if he isn't buttons when he gets hit?

bug_deal - Yesterday at 7:42 PM
maybe sort of above his staff like it's a pogo stick and he's drilling it in to your face

LordJimmyBones - Yesterday at 7:44 PM
cant wait to see a footage of this guy
im very interrested

NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 7:44 PM
I seem to recall there was someone using SFV Dhalsim to rush down with a degree of success? That kind of super could enable that as an option for Garg.

bug_deal - Yesterday at 7:45 PM
i guess what i'm imagining is just faust's drill
that's why it's so vivid in my mind

NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 7:45 PM
I mean, I'm just spitballing here, but I would honestly be very impressed if my ideas came to fruition ingame.

bug_deal - Yesterday at 7:45 PM
yeah it's just tossing out ideas
bubbles and drills sound fun
but who knows
ya never know how a fighter's gonna play until they get in your hands....

NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 7:46 PM
So, what would standing A be like? And how would B work of the options I provided?
Because I dunno for the former, and the latter would be broken if you could have a ton of bubbles onscreen. But simply disabling the button might be unfair for the player; but allowing further action could be broken. Tough to know without testing.
While I'm at it. I'd state what Lum could do, but 1. I have no idea what to do with his randomness, and 2. I have no idea who he apes, if anyone.

bug_deal - Yesterday at 7:56 PM
standing A, I would guess just a quick jab, maybe with a limb or a short motion with the staff
a reach with the staff seems more like a forward a move
maybe back A could be a very short range anti air like a move that ducks and pushes the staff up or something

GRAG - Yesterday at 7:58 PM
Rumor has it Lum is basically Blanka + Faust

bug_deal - Yesterday at 7:58 PM
yeah

Sotek - Yesterday at 7:58 PM
lum b: ball. lum c: item?

bug_deal - Yesterday at 7:58 PM
maybe B could be ground level fish projectile, and C could be a bubble that starts behind him and sort of floats up?
up and forward
or fish could jump out like a good short range arc projectile and bubble would slowly go acress the whole screen like a wave beam

GRAG - Yesterday at 7:59 PM
Should he actually have a super block like in Yomi, or should he have a more aggressive super?

NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 8:00 PM
Hm...lift arm to diagonally forward, holding the staff vertical. Short range but hits jumping and low opponents. Arg sA good to go, I suppose!

(continued...)

[NiGHTcapD]

(Bit of an argument follows from here, until we figure it out.)

---

bug_deal - Yesterday at 8:00 PM
maybe a super could give him a buff that makes his block crazy for a while
?
and then he walks up to you and throws you

Sotek - Yesterday at 8:00 PM
spike block

bug_deal - Yesterday at 8:00 PM
since you're afraid to hit him

GRAG - Yesterday at 8:01 PM
I could see him using his staff for some crazy combination of aikido and bartitsu

NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 8:01 PM
Lum B: Ball, C: item...jB I dunno, jC Coin Toss?

bug_deal - Yesterday at 8:01 PM
i think a super BLOCK would not really feel great because it would be more like a parry
but "bubble install" to buff his block for a while sounds cool
then jump super could be blowfish spikes and he just rains down shit like storm or something

NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 8:03 PM
Well, something that causes automatic semiblocking was already described by me. Unless you have another idea about how to buff his block?

bug_deal - Yesterday at 8:04 PM
semi blocking isnt fun. making his block scary like bubble shield is fun

GRAG - Yesterday at 8:04 PM
Yeah, super block doesn't sound much fun unless it's really just a counterhit super

bug_deal - Yesterday at 8:04 PM
buff him for 5-10 seconds so his blocks give him a bubble that absorbs 1 hit
if he blocks something he gets a bubble
bubbles stack

GRAG - Yesterday at 8:05 PM
One major selling point of the game is that rounds are quick and concise

bug_deal - Yesterday at 8:05 PM
he armors through shit

NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 8:05 PM
Defend your position. Start by describing block buff you just did.

bug_deal - Yesterday at 8:05 PM
or maybe the bubbles hurt you or have potential to

GRAG - Yesterday at 8:05 PM
Unless he's part of the 5 HP club

bug_deal - Yesterday at 8:06 PM
maybe he blocks and gets a satellite bubble

GRAG - Yesterday at 8:06 PM
Strider Hiryu styles
Ourobubbles

bug_deal - Yesterday at 8:06 PM
soul satellite style

NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 8:06 PM
That would be an interesting Hex of Murkwood.

bug_deal - Yesterday at 8:06 PM
not options haha

GRAG - Yesterday at 8:07 PM
Oh or
Maybe the bubbles revolve around the opponent, and they can't attack for five seconds without risking getting hit by the bubbles?

bug_deal - Yesterday at 8:07 PM
that depends a lot on their moves... might be hard to design moves such that they all have options with an orbital bubble

NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 8:07 PM
I almost want to nvm Blowfish Spikes so that he has two different defensive buffs; your idea and mine.

bug_deal - Yesterday at 8:07 PM
all characters i mean

GRAG - Yesterday at 8:08 PM
OR it removes one button from the opponent for 5-10 sec

NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 8:08 PM
Except no. One of those should probably be left for arena mode.

GRAG - Yesterday at 8:08 PM
Like if you get hit by the bubble shield super you lose B or C

bug_deal - Yesterday at 8:08 PM
i have 2 ideas. both are give him 5-10 second buff where he gets a bubble for blocking hits.
then either bubbles are hits of armor
or satellites.

GRAG - Yesterday at 8:09 PM
In my head Arg's fighting style is all about disabling threats instead of aiming to harm or kill

NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 8:09 PM
Bubble Shield super, let's go with that and put my idea in Arena mode instead.

bug_deal - Yesterday at 8:10 PM
it might not turn out that great anyway...

NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 8:10 PM
GRAG That's the idea with his normals; disable threats before they can get close.

bug_deal - Yesterday at 8:10 PM
people might just avoid attacking his blocks at all costs and wait it out
which yeah it does something but it would be lame if he never actuAlly got to block and trigger something in "real" play
as an example

NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 8:10 PM
Hey there Sirlin. Like what you see?
bug_deal If that's the case, then maybe they can try to throw him to remove it instead of waiting it out? Then he would have to attack or yomi their throws, but then he could be attacked.

bug_deal - Yesterday at 8:13 PM
oh, that sounds fun

NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 8:13 PM
So basically hit it to remove it, same deal as in Yomi.

bug_deal - Yesterday at 8:13 PM
er
yeah
super activates good blocks
they last until he gets hit or thrown
though now that i'm thinking about it

NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 8:14 PM
Logic somehow manages to bring it back into its original form.

(continued...)

[NiGHTcapD]

(The conversation winds down from here.)

---

bug_deal - Yesterday at 8:14 PM
in general, a buff super seems like a good thing for arg, whether it's bubble shield related or not
so if he keeps his distance he has time and space to activate his buff
and then zone even harder or whatever
turn on Double Bubble Mode
oh god
split into two like morrigan

NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 8:15 PM
Nope.

bug_deal - Yesterday at 8:15 PM
haha
not great flavor

NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 8:15 PM
That's Quince's gig.

bug_deal - Yesterday at 8:15 PM
true

NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 8:15 PM
Get it straight.

bug_deal - Yesterday at 8:16 PM
though quince does it to confuse you about what he's really doing, not to throw twice as many projectiles from twice as many directions

NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 8:16 PM
Maybe for a super he might.

(End of original discussion; feel free to put together a full moveset based on what was discussed here or based on whatever you think personally.)

[NiGHTcapD]

Oh yeah. This happened later, but it's a one-off with weight to it.

lofo - Yesterday at 9:11 PM
i figured arg would just have some sort of pushblock mechanic
fits flavour and the keepaway mechanics
also if his hex is "metaphor for poking a lot" then pushblock fits into "makes my poking more better" as desired

[neigutten]

I might be in a minority, but I don't think Argagarg should play like Dhalsim. I know he is based on that character, and that it would work with his staff and stuff. I think he should work more like Fang from SFV.

Most of my argument would rely on whether or not BBB is ideally going to be a character sometime down the line. If BBB would at some point be playable, if the game does well enough to both pay for it self and make enough money to support adding characters, and that is something that Sirlin wants to be able to do in an ideal world.

I think that instead of representing the character he is based on, I think he should be the character he grew into in when made for Yomi.

So, with that in mind, he becomes a runaway character instead of a zoning character.

Main tools:
1) Fireball that doesn't deal damage on hit, or deal hitstun or blockstun. When it hits, your opponent gets wet and they now have to hit Argagarg to avoid taking wet damage. Wet damage will deal 1 hp to an opponent after 5 seconds, unless they are able to hit Argagarg to "shake it off".

2) Slides to cross under jump-ins.

3) Teleport to get away from situations

4) Some sort of pushblock super, or blue burst super.

[GRAG]

Truth be told, in practice Jaina actually plays a lot like FANG. Maybe not quite so directly, but there's a lot of similarity with the U-shaped play styles. Would be cool to see Arg be a little less directly based on an existing character and a little more fully original (and as I've said before, I'm still in camp "staff Arg" because stretchy Arg would basically just be free ammo for the "it's just a lazy ripoff" haters)