Fantasy Strike MatchUp Chart


#143

There was one Lum who got absurdly lucky with items and beat me in the Lum mirror once, maybe that was you. If that was the game I’m thinking off he had several rounds of throwing 2-3 Fireworks in a handful of item tosses. I think I’ve only ever lost the Lum mirror once besides that.

I was also thinking you might be a Rook player, but I’ve taken at least one match off pretty much every Rook I’ve played so it’s possible I may have never played your Rook. If your were playing Jaina / Grave, then yeah, obviously you’ll win because those matches are free.

I’ve played against Squible a lot and while he definitely plays well, I don’t really feel like I see a lot of unique style, he just plays the matchups better than other players and makes fewer mistakes. That being said, I have taken him to game 7 with Lum as virtually every character he plays.

Actually, the fact that games go to 7 is, IMO, one of the worst things about this game. It just makes bad matchups so much more unplayable. The way you generally win bad matchups is to gain momentum and then overwhelm the opponent, but the fact that every round resets the momentum makes victory extremely unlikely. Over a large number of rounds, the better character will generally win out. This is why you see characters like Rook and Lum having such polarized matchup spreads. I’m honestly not sure what the logic behind having characters have very little health and having a lot of rounds was, it feels like it was borrowed from Divekick but it served a very different purpose in that game.


#144

You should meet @zerowulf, you’d be pals very quickly.

I don’t want to get into your discussion with @Laudandus, I’ll just make a few points:

  • Geiger doesn’t get a free bar of block damage from his airSuper unless he gets close, and it’s not easy entering on Lum. Lum doesn’t get a free hit of block damage from his airSuper either in the MU, but he actually has an easier time doing so than Geiger in my opinion.

  • Lum’s Super against DeGrey is as unsafe for him as it is punishing it for DeGrey. It’s all about the rng there.

  • Personal expression in this game is present for sure. I wouldn’t know about many, but CWheezy’s style is recognizable for sure. Fucking cancer!

  • If you really got beat 8-0 in a mirror, you can’t just blame Item Luck. I can see it for 1, 2 matches, but 8-0 man…

Finally why don’t people love the reset in momentum between rounds?!


#145

[quote=“SaSSolino, post:144, topic:626”]
Lum’s Super against DeGrey is as unsafe for him as it is punishing it for DeGrey. It’s all about the rng there.[/quote]
It seems like if you do Pilebunker on reaction to the super flash, Lum doesn’t get to throw all four items, so the risk to DeGrey isn’t huge. Might be somewhat spacing-dependent, but I don’t think you’d commonly want to do ground super at neutral without first locking down with a bomb or something.

[quote=“SaSSolino, post:144, topic:626”]
If you really got beat 8-0 in a mirror, you can’t just blame Item Luck. I can see it for 1, 2 matches, but 8-0 man…[/quote]
Item luck can easily swing an otherwise unremarkable 4-2 into a 4-0. It’s also only one set (you may be mistaking 8-0 for 8 games, it was 8 rounds). A 4-0 is akin to a perfect in SF or whatever, they happen from time to time even to the best players. Item luck is also particularly significant in the Lum mirror since you have twice as many items being thrown as in a typical Lum match.

[quote=“SaSSolino, post:144, topic:626”]
Finally why don’t people love the reset in momentum between rounds?![/quote]
Obviously, it feels terrible if you’re playing a matchup where you have to work really hard to gain momentum. It’s also a direct buff to zoning characters, and is probably a big part of why the zoning characters tend to be the best in the game.


#146
  • It works very well if the DeGrey player is already in the middle of his B, meaning that he only has to cancel it. In complete neutral Lum should be fine.

  • I thought it was 8-0 matches. 8-0 rounds wise can just be momentum, no problems there. My bad.

  • False. Characters are balanced around the 7 rounds format, they don’t just happen to end up in this game. Zoners are meant to be cornered, which is why non zoning charcters (expecially Lum, DeGrey and Rook) have such powerful corner games. And just like life tends to be low, corners tend to be close, it’s actually pretty good design when you think about it.


#147

Hello, here are some Lum opinions

Lum vs Setsuki: 0.5 - 9.5

Lum vs Valerie: 2 - 8

Lum vs Grave: 2.5 - 7.5

Lum vs Degrey: 3 - 7

Lum vs Jaina: 4 - 6

Lum vs Geiger: 4 - 6

Lum vs Midori: 5 - 5

Lum vs Rook: 8 - 2


#148

Spicy hot.


#149

This is the very first time I have ever seen someone calling a MU 0.5 - 9.5. Ever.

I’ll add the numbers, but tuned down. I understand that it’s not completely fair, but they would fuck it up for everyone else’s otherwise.


#150

don’t add them at all in that case, thanks


#151

Roger. I can remove your old numbers for Rook too if you want.


#152

yes please

EDIT: If you are going to aggregate numbers please don’t edit them because they might make the chart look bad. Just list them


#153

They are listed already here in the comments. The chart is supposed to be an average.


#154

you can have both be in the chart, or no average at all


#155

You want me to list all the given numbers in the same document? It’s double actually, and that way I can show your own specifying that you are not part of the chart average.

I’m not sure I understood correctly though.


#156

If you’re gonna post cwheezy mu chart, I can also contribute a mu chart


#157

Didn’t you already throw a few numbers around?

Besides I was planning on creating a list of numbers instead of an actual chart, as most people just gave numbers to their respective mains. And rightfully so.


#158

I meant something more like this:


#159

How did they make that matchup chart? Did they average the two players’ opinions for each matchup or did every pair of top players just agree?


#160

Because of the massive lum nerf, I am going to lower these all by 1.

Lum vs Setsuki: -0.5 - 10.5

Lum vs Valerie: 1 - 9

Lum vs Grave: 1.5 - 8.5

Lum vs Degrey: 2 - 8

Lum vs Jaina: 3 - 7

Lum vs Geiger: 3 - 7

Lum vs Midori: 4 - 6

Lum vs Rook: 7 - 3


#161

Lum vs Setsuki: -0.5 - 10.5

Legit.


#162

Lol (-0.5 to 10.5). I haven’t played in a while so haven’t touched the patch, but from reading the Lum nerfs, particualrly to the anti-air roll, I do suspect his matchup against everyone but Rook is much harder than I listed previously, since I relied on that as defense quite a bit. Depends how badly it got nerfed.