Just got the game and Im struggling with grapplers


#1

Just messing around in arcade mode because if Im struggling against AI there is no way I would be able to stand a chance against a human. Rook and Midori are giving me problems. They seem to be able to counter everything I do. I try to be patient and punish but I just get worn down before I can chew through their 9 HP with Valerie. A lot of their moves seem so safe and free compared to mine that I don’t know what to do against them. Any advice?


#2

For the record, I know it’s a problem with me and I’m not complaning or calling the characters broken or anything like that. I just want to know exactly how I can “git gud”


#3

My first piece of advice would be “don’t beat yourself up over it, because Midori only has 7 HP and his super gauge fills more slowly when he isn’t the last boss of arcade mode” ; )

Grapplers can be tough, though, especially with projectile-free Valerie. Her fA has crazy good range, so that can be valuable. Her air A can be done twice, too, which beats the armor on Rook’s armored command throw. Midori’s parry is a big thorn in Valerie’s side, though, and the AI basically just mashes buttons, so you can’t really hope to teach your opponent to fear throws and then go for an attack once they’re trying to Yomi counter a throw.


#4

Thank you for the advice. I’ll play some with my friend who’s good at fighting games since he did show interest in this game. That way I can get a better feel for how to play Valerie against people. I don’t know why I didn’t consider AI doing AI things lol. That parry is a problem but I’ll learn eventually.


#5

Supers are a factor too. Valerie’s air super is one of the most devastating in the game, in that it can lead to massive damage. Usually 2 damage even on block. You need a moment to set it up though and to have positioning right over them. Meanwhile, the ground super is your “get off me” move that you use if you are forced to. Or use vs a cornered jumping opponent so you can juggle afterwards, which gives you 2 damage total.

Air B is also a good source of damage, but requires setup. It can’t hit until she lands (then the paint trail hits). Against a knocked down grappler, you can do it with timing such that when they stand up, you’re safe from their throw, but they are inside that paint trail. If you hit, you combo to B,B for a total 3 damage. If they block, you do B then back+B to do a total of 2 increments of (flashing) block damage, and then retreat to safety.

Jump A,A is generally good. If you happen to catch them in the air, you can land and juggle with neutral A for a total of 3 damage and then cancel that neutral A to either B or forward+B for a mixup that can do an additional 1 damage.

Back+A is throw invulnerable for part of it, so that helps vs grapplers. Plus it does 2 damage and is not only safe on block, but actually you recover first so your next move will beat almost anything they try to do next.


#6

I had the same issue when I started out, so my one piece of advice would be: Don’t forget about Yomi counters!
In the heat of the moment it’s easy to forget that doing nothing is sometimes the best option, especially against an AI grappler who is all but guaranteed to throw if you’re in range (not so much with a human opponent). Not only does a Yomi counter get you out of a sticky situation, but it fills your super meter which is the key to Valerie’s massive damage potential.


#7

Thank you, I appreciate the tips, especially the back A move. I’m still learning how a lot of the mechanics work. I really enjoy all of these characters in this game. I’m having a lot of fun with it. I find the yomi counter interesting.


#9

There’s one particular thing that gave me a lot of trouble against grapplers when I first started out, but once I learned more about the mechanics, it became less of an issue. You probably already know that you can jump out of command grabs/special and super throws, but what you might not know is that using an attack in the air disables your invulnerability to them. I feel like the current guide doesn’t really make this clear enough, but maybe the in-game tutorial at release will cover this detail better. Hopefully this tidbit of knowledge will help you out a bit in these matchups.


#10

That is relevant for exactly one move in the game: dragon’s air C while you are in the air.

I think you might be confused there, not sure. If you’re on the ground and being possibly thrown by any ground throw that Rook, Midori, or any other character in the game has, then the thing you’re saying about “if you do a move, you can still be thrown” is not true or relevant. Your pre-jump frames are immune to all special and super throws, then after that you’re in the air and you’re immune to all ground throws. If you do a move, nothing relevant changes, you’re still in the air and immune to all ground throws.

The guide is already correct and quite clear on this. Again, the ONLY move in the game where that advice applies is Dragon’s air C while you’re jumping. If you are in pre jump or on the way up jumping, you have a very large number of frames where you’re invulnerable to that air throw. But if you do an attack in the air, you’re no longer invulnerable to it.


#11

Also, welcome to the game! Hopefully we’ll see you on the Discord chat sometime — it’s a very friendly place overall, outside of my conviction that Setsuki players are hopeless moral degenerates. ; )


#12

For Val vs AI Rook especially you can just get next to him and spam back A on the ground, and he’ll constantly try and throw you. You can even get perfects just doing this once you get the timing right as the AI will never learn of course :slight_smile: This can work vs Midori too but it’s a bit harder to get into the perfect spot to just keep doing it over and over.
Obviously this tip is only relevant if you just want to beat the AI! An actual opponent should catch on quickly :wink:


#13

Thank you, I’ll take you up on that what’s the server info for discord


#14

Kind of piggybacking on @Remy77077, when you’re playing boss Midori he has a tendency to throw in a very specific situation. Generally, boss Midori loves to throw after you approach him with an aerial attack that he blocked. So, I almost always let go of my controls and get the yomi counter. The AI never learns, so it will do this over and over again. However, you can consider this a good opportunity to see how you can find a pattern in an opponent such as this and find a specific tactic to counter it.

Don’t forget that you get a full super bar after a yomi counter. So, many Valerie players immediately execute her air super as @Sirlin mentioned. It’s a great follow up. A yomi counter (for 1 damage and full super meter) that leads to her air super (usually for 2 damage even on block) is a pretty devastating situation.


#15

It’s https://discordapp.com/invite/Q3qrGUq

(Linked from fantasystrike.com -> Community -> Chat too :slight_smile: