Mixups


#1

In most fighting games, high-low blocking is the reason why mixups exist. The most basic and universal is:

  • HIGH: Late jump-in normal

  • LOW: Empty jump into fast low

  • THROW: Empty jump into throw

However, since this game has no high-low blocking, it’d be fair to assume that all of the mixups in this game are left/right and strike/throw. Any idea of what mixups can be done in Fantasy Strike?


#2

Yeah, the biggest mixups are strike/throw since normal throws are so good, and sometimes left/right crossup mixups (mostly Valerie’s rekka series). Rook has a command throw that adds another wrinkle, since you must jump to avoid command throws.

In practice, too, empty jump into throw is an extremely real threat (given the aforementioned extremely good throws), and if you aren’t using it, adding it to your repertoire will instantly make you significantly more dangerous. I mean, it’s listed up there, but I daresay it’s a much more “real” option than in most fighting games.


#3

Setsuki also has command throws on both of her ground specials that can add to the mix up game. While Val has the left/right mix-ups, Setsuki has, at minimum, two options from any read you can get off of her


#4

Jump in yomi counter for when things get too real. :slight_smile:

The universal mixup is going to be strike/throw but playing around yomi counter will open up other options.

Many players for instance, will block a jump in, go to neutral, and then block again. This will in theory counter jump in throw. It does however, lose to delayed throw.

So, most mixups need to keep yomi counter in mind. Especially because yomi counter can be a game losing situation (Valerie especially)


#5

I bring this up because, if you’re talking about teaching the fighting game genre to those who’ve never played fighting games before, I feel a piece of the puzzle is to teach players how to perform mixups, as well as defend against them.

Block high if they jump in at you, and block everything else low by default, but watch for overheads.

THEN you throw in the left/right and strike/throw mixups.


#6

I may be wrong on this, but I believe what you are talking is fuzzy guarding (fighting game terminology is loose and sometimes uses terms for multiple things) which is a more advanced technique. The concept of mixups is simpler, and translates well while fuzzy guard timing can vary between games.

Fantasy strike is a better place to get used to fuzzy guards and mix ups because the fewer choices make it easier to understand these rather difficult concepts


#7

No, I’m thinking more about Mixups 101.


#8

Mix ups 101 differs depending on if you’re playing a 2D or 3D fighter, I think it’s more important to teach the overall concept of mixups, which will apply to all fighting games, than one specific type of mix up.


#9

As far as teaching someone the basics about blocking in another fighting game, such as a 2D one that you’re describing, the only reason you don’t really start talking about strike/throw mixup defense is because it’s more difficult to perform. You’re talking about teching throws with a very specific timing window when the player doesn’t even have a grasp of the basic rhythm of fighting games yet.

Here, you know to block by default. Period. Let go when you think they’ll throw. You don’t have to worry about buffering any type of teching in a block string. This also has the immediate feedback of “Oh, I got hit here” or “Oh, I got thrown here” when they’re starting to choose how to defend. Immediate feedback of what they did right/wrong is the most important part of learning how to adjust. Most fighting games give you seemingly ambiguous feedback, until you start actually learning about the engine itself, as far as trying to block mixups.

As far as doing mixups, it follows very simply in concept from there. Performing the mixup requires practice, but the concept itself is not difficult.


#10

Never mentioned throw teching. I’m aware of the Yomi Counter system, and it’s a very welcome inclusion in my opinion.


#11

Sorry, I know you weren’t talking about throw teching. I meant it as a general “When you (general audience) start introducing the strike/throw mixup”, as you mentioned previously. Not “You (BluePhoenix) are talking about throw teching.” Darn language ambiguity.

Specifically, I think the reason why when introducing a player to another traditional 2D fighter that strike/throw mixup is introduced later is specifically because of the execution and system involved. High/low is much easier to introduce at first.

So, yes. The strike/throw is the central mixup in Fantasy Strike with crossups as the close second.