Rook seems a bit overpowered


#61

I only get 2 damage very occasionally. Mostly I miss them with the first hit, the rest of the time it’s a mix of them bouncing out and being too far for the 2nd hit, or being able to block it. Sometimes the dream though.


#62

On one hand I can understand your point, but on the other getting 3 damage from a throw doesn’t sound bad at all. Whatever, the devs decide anyway.

I’ll lab it a little to see if I can get Rook in a better situation after a wakeup jump back at C throw distance. It’s more of a curiousity than anything else, and I probably won’t find anything, but I’ll post stuff here otherwise.


#63

Just practice a bit in training mode. You can get the timing down.
It’s no harder than throwing prejump frames


#64

It’s a 3 frames like though, it does require some timing.


#65

Why can’t people just open with “Rook seems overpowered at casual* level”?

*or intermediate, or to people really good at Street Fighter, or whatever.


#66

Because the Dunning-Kruger effect prevents beginners from realizing they don’t know what, by definition, they don’t know?


#67

If I’m starting God of War and I do awesome combos, I might mistakenly think I’m really good. But here in these cases there’s the additional element of “I’m getting destroyed a lot” - while obviously you’re missing information (else you’d probably win more, right?), your brain can certainly conceive of the possibility that you could yet improve.

To me this is a lot like saying “Bowser in SMB is impossible to defeat, and I have mathematical proof!”


#68

See above.


#69

Yeah, I was like commenting on it.


#70

OP is thinking about the problem as though it’s a typical fighting game.
FS has 5-9 quick rounds and most characters are good enough at what they do to rapidly destroy or oppressively lock down in any one of those rounds.
If rook didn’t have those percentages after executing his goal (getting in) which he needs to repeat a further 8-17 times in order to win, he would be garbage.
I say this as a Valerie player that cries tears of blood as rook gets an instant win after one knockdown.


#71

Yeah, I actually love this low health-multiple rounds system. It resets neutral and tones down momentum, making even super oppressive characters like Setsuki fair.


#72

Okay, so while I still think calling Rook “overpowered” is bullshit, there is one new thing I found about him that I think ought to be taken out. I was playing against a Rook as Midori and I used Midori’s Mario butt-pound to get behind Rook right as he was starting his ground B. I went after the sliding opponent and caught up to him with the intent to throw, but what instead happened was that I was hit by the punch… from behind Rook.

That’s definitely something about Rook that I think should be removed, in fact I’m not even certain it was intentional to begin with. It just seems counter intuitive and punishing to good movement.


#73

I’m going to revive this thread real quick to tell @mysticjuicer that as it turns out, after a C knockdown, Rook can still walk forward and throw, stopping a jump out. I’m not sure if it works against every character as I haven’t labbed it much, but it works against Jaina and I belive Valerie.

In other words, Rook still gets his 33/33/33 vortex out of a C knockdown and it’s not true that jumping out is a sure way to escape at the price of 1 damage.

I won’t lie: even though I don’t consider this enough to be called broken, it is kind of nuts.


#74

Welcome to the forums @Doombybbr! I am glad you are curious enough to delve into the theory of characters!

I will agree that Rooks mixup when he is close is ridonculous! They are, probably the hardest mixups to get out of if you first get hit!

The thing is, Rook is the easiest character to not get hit by! To try this out for yourself, you can do this with every character, do the following.

Go into training mode, and one of the character needs to be Rook at least (but I suggest you do this with everyone), then you make Rook hold towards your opponent, and the other character holds backwards. Then you check to see how many seconds it takes for Rook to actually get within grab range. You could also just take my word, that Rook is the slowest character to get within range to grab range to any opponent. And then we are also taking into the context that he has some of the largest range on his grabs as well!

Then, lets go over both his grab, his armored B and his C, which seems to be the main focus for you. I will list the most important features to consider when playing against Rook.

The answer is: Distance. At the proper distance you can react to Armored B by jumping, and doing a neutral attack in your jump, then combo that neutral jump into something - allowing you to create distance, again, to Rook. With that in mind, the distance you want to stay at is right outside of his armored C throw. This you do by just walking away from him, or jumping away from him - and by doing attacks that pushes him away.

So, in the end, it becomes very balanced. Rook needs to work the hardest of everyone in the game, to get a grab, to get “his game going”. And even when he does get in, he needs to guess correctly, if you are going to try to jump away he wants to throw you in the pre-jump-frames. If you are going to attack, he needs to do the C grab. And even if he does hit you, the mixup he gets after it, even tho it is super strong, it is still a mixup you can guess your way out of! If he had to chase you around for 20 seconds to do 2 damage, and then need to chase you for another 20 seconds to get another 2 damage, he wouldn’t stand a chance in the game at all.

Personally, I love playing against Rook and playing as Rook, because that chase part is so fun. Both to get away, and to get in.

As a side note: If you look at grappler stereotypes in other games, Zangief in Street Fighter, Potempkin in Guilty Gear, ect, you will see that not only do they follow the same type of gameplay - but they are usually even more favored when they do get in, than what Rook is in this game.


#75

@SaSSolino was it a C gram or was it a normal grab?
After a C knockdown he should still be too far from a normal grab range, and you should have been able to jump out of it?


#76

Rook can walk forward after a C grab to do a normal grab after the character gets up. He needs to walk forward a bit to do so, but it is possible.


#77

What @Sente said exactly. It’s kinda dumb to be honest.


#78

Will that throw still be meaty? :open_mouth:


#79

Yep

also, other characters to meet post requiremements


#80

On the other hand, it is one of the most telegraphed throw set-ups ever, so you should be getting your Yomi counter on a good amount of the time.