Argagarg move set brainstorming

Same as the others, but for Argagarg.

What we know is that he’s a stretchy Dhalsim-type guy. And a patient zoner.

Back when this game was merely a theoretical fighting game of some sort, when we had no idea it would be the current style, I thought Argagarg should have the following ability: “If you would chip him, he chips you instead.” In a “normal” fighting game I think that would be kinda cool. But… In this game, here is what I think he should have:

If the round goes to timeout, Argagarg automatically wins. Like his Pacifism ability in Flash Duel! (Obviously timeout works normally with two Args.)

For his actual moves, I wonder… Should he have two buttons of normals? He feels like he could have enough normals to fill two buttons. For example:

Neutral A would be a jab with a lower arm. (Remember he’s got four!)
Back A would be… A sweep? I’m the least sure about this.
Forward A would be a slide.

Then B moves would be the stretchy ones:

Neutral B would be a long-ranged straight punch. Your main long poke.
Forward B would be a diagonal upward punch. Think Axl’s forward K.
Back B would be a different-angled diagonal upward punch. Think Axl’s crouching S.

No idea what C would be; should he even have a fireball? I always felt weird about Dhalsim having a fireball; his concept feels more pure if he doesn’t. He already has long-ranged moves!

I imagine one of his supers would be Bubble Shield; not sure what it does. Maybe it prevents chip and… Something else? More pushback when you block? Dunno.

Edit: Maybe C can be a wave projectile… That just pushes back. Doesn’t damage or even inflict hitstun, just pushes back a lot. (Doesn’t matter if they’re blocking or attacking or what. Always pushes the same.)

I want raging River to wall bounce at close range, like pilebunker counter hit.

I don’t know if fsfg of all games should break button conventions. Maybe B would be water projectile or bubbles. Upward arc like sf5 Sim or FANG
Forward A can be long straight punch
Neutral a can be medium range (low?)
Back can be anti air

His normals have to be slow, except maybe the anti air

Maybe if ground B is arc projectiles, then air b can be bubbles. No damage, but stop opponents from getting in

Air C swing his staff downward like Dhalsim air heavy punch. High priority.

Air A… Well I don’t want that to be the diagonal down because I want BBB to have something to his own, and I feel like everything shows him doing that. Maybe like a closer range attack, like all 4 of his arms punch medium range out

Ground super can be bubble burst, which is like burst in arc sys games. If he has bad close range and getting pressured too hard, he can burst them back

Air super is maybe a big slow projectile of maybe air “oraoraora”

Given that we know Argagarg is stretchy limb guy I think it’d be cool if his projectiles were summoned from his staff, and his other free limbs were used to punch shit. He might have one staff smack as a bA or something, but we could get a lot out of him holding his staff over his head (like his Yomi throw animation) to summon bubbles, waves, waterfalls etc. Gives him the feel of a real spellcaster.

I think Arg C could be Dormammu’s Purification:

Where you can do bC, C, or fC to control where the column comes out of. It would, of course, be a big water geyser or waterfall. Control space on the screen as a zoner.

His B could be the Raging River move that pushes the opponent back (on hit or block, must jump) and deals 1 or chip.
Looks like a Reppuken with more water effects:

So now Arg has tools to control lots of space. He can control the speed of the wave like Grave can, but it’s very easy to jump over (that’s what C and normals are for; catching jumps).

Air B being a floaty bubble (Sparkling Burst) sounds great. Like Dizzy Bubble but instead of traveling forward across the screen (like a simple air fireball) it could drop down in front of Arg slowly to kind of pre-emptively zone out the opponent. Maybe a slow moving forward one like Dizzy would be okay, but I worry about how good jB into ground B becomes for zoning. Jaina can do it and it’s kind of okay, but her projectiles are faster so it makes her zoning fair.

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Still caught up on how Arg is going to be a Stretchy limb guy. Can’t wait to see him though. I still think it’d be cool if he had gold burst

I still think the coolest thing would be a boneless octopus boy like SF5 Dhalsim’s animations but more extreme, who uses the rigidity of his staff to hit harder when it counts.

Gameplay-wise, I could see him having an arced projectile along with the harmless-but-annoying wave that pushes the opponent away, which has already been announced, though it’s crucial to tune it so that it doesn’t lead to it being simply impossible to get in on Argagarg.

As for air stuff… hmm. It would be cool if he had Rolento’s staff drop to cross up? Presumably you’d want him to have some sort of long-range attack too while in the air, though. Briefly imagining Ukyō’s tsubame-gaeshi from Samurai Shodown but with the staff, but that might be a little too crazy with the hitboxes. ; )

Oh what if he did an air drill for one of his air specials, maybe like faust, instead of Dhalsim?

Yo okay here’s my whole layout
Lots of Sim and Faust ideas here. A hard zoner with less emphasis on fireballs but heavy keep away game with lots of pokes without (smaller?) hurt boxes from staff attacks. Awful at close range. The only combos are 2 points or 3 with a fireball setup, but he’d have so many tools for keep away.

N A: and anti air staff poke. Bad at close range (at point blank it will hit but further will whiff), but great anti air with no hurt box.
F A: long poke. With whatever stretch and staff he can reach (gotta at least be longer than Lum) he strikes low, going under fireballs. I’m still in the staff camp, with Faust-like pokes, but if he were to be like Dhalsim, perhaps he anchors the staff in the ground, flies out while holding the staff with his right arms and punches out with his left (or kicks), that way he can have a hurt box.
B A: pogo back hop. No character has a backdash yet and I think that’d be cool and appropriate for a keep away game. While you are hopping back, anyone who rushes in will get hit by the stick, but it can’t damage them unless they try and chase you down too hastily (too close and then it’s a grab anyways)

B: up arc water bullets, like fang or SF5 Sim. Directions will do closer and further variants. Unsure how high it would arc, whether it would be as hard as sf5 yoga flame or more like a straight line with a mild bend upward. Maybe holding it would do a very slow shallow arc.

C: raging River. If the front of the wave hits as a counter it, it will cause wall bounce and 1 damage, otherwise no damage. The front of the wave will have a hit box/projectile function a la SNK, but the water trailing behind will just push them back, much like wind.

J A: A big swipe down, like Dhalsim Heavy punch on the air, probably with staff. Big range but long recovery and punishable on whiff

JB: spits a bubble that floats in the air. Doesn’t do damage but hitstuns enemies out of the air. Maybe holding it will delay falling and send bubbles out further?

JC: a spin spiral in the air forward. I’m thinking like Faust but maybe a little like Sim kicks too. Something that moves him forwards if he’s trying to be aggressive. Maybe J A can combo into this, and this can maybe cancel to air super for his only 3 hit combo

S: gold bubble burst. Invincible reversal, but no damage. Maybe 1 point or chip. Sends them full screen. Light on recovery frames relative to other supers, but definitely punishable.

J S: water dragon. Haven’t thought this one out much but I’m thinking some big attack for 1 or 2 that aims downwards from the air. Easily blocked but pushes back too.

Lemme know what you think my regular dudes.

Ooh, Geiger’s old air B could be a useful source of inspiration!

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what was his old air b? Something before the glimmer?

Yeah, it used to be kind of vaguely like his air super, where it was a single gear that would float to a midair position at the left, center, or right of the screen (depending on what you pressed) and then stay there for a moment, or until he got hit. It didn’t really fit his play style, though.

I see.
Buuuuuuut for Arg, who’s more keep away than the “come and get me” of Guile…
Bubbles might work?

I honestly don’t know how infuriating this character (at least the moveset I thought up) would be to play against. Either he’d be really good or pretty bad I think.

As a frame of reference, though I’ve typically never liked keep away and heavy projectile zoners, feeling that to an extent they’re anti fun, I think Jaina as of now is in this perfect zone of fun to play as and not horrible to play against. She keeps away pretty well, but there are definitely tools and she definitely has weaknesses

Part of the problem was also that having a thing that just hovered mid-air was really strong — between having a thing on the ground that pushes opponents away (all but confirmed, though it may not do damage) and maybe arced projectiles and maybe even a thing that hangs in place in the air, it sounds like Arg might be boss-character-level difficult to get in on, especially for Rook.

What would be kind of neat is if he were designed in a way that made him more or less helpless from short range, but that might be a bit extreme. Maybe for BBB. ; )

I see. Good background knowledge and insight.
From my write up, Arg is designed to be really bad at point blank or right out of grab range. If the floating projectiles are known to be bad, then maybe instead of staying, they’re just slowly moving forward. And upward! bubbles go up! Maybe they shoot forward and then go up a bit, opening up space as they float away.

And if it wasn’t clear, I’m interpreting him to be pretty slow. Geiger can’t just mash out gears for days, like how Guile can do booms forever, and Arg’s water shot arcs probably can’t have more than one on screen. Whereas Jaina can spam arrows to keep away, Arg would have to be more deliberate about which tool to use right now to keep them out, because the wrong one could lead to a bad opening.

I guess Arg doesn’t need to have a long ass sweep. I think BBB should have long attacks that go under fireballs though

I’d love to see a move for zoning that you summon to hurt a specific place of the screen, like bB goes just in front of Arg, B goes at mid screen and fB goes 3/4 sccreen.

Also his watershield could act as a Combo Breaker.

or should I say

Ooh. What if it put Arg in a state where:
• If hit, Arg takes no damage and doesn’t even go into hitstun (basically armor except the first hit does no damage) and then the shield vanishes
• The shield can be beaten by throws, but in exchange Arg gets a 2-damage Yomi counter while shield is active